[E82] Welche M3 Fahrwerkskomponenten sind kompatibel?

Dieses Thema im Forum "Federn & Fahrwerk" wurde erstellt von AnooooOH, 02.08.2012.

  1. #1 AnooooOH, 02.08.2012
    AnooooOH

    AnooooOH 1er-Süchtling

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    M235i
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    Coupé (F22)
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    Vorname:
    Phil
    Wäre schön, wenn wir das hier mal zusammentragen könnten,
    am besten mit teilenummer und preisen.
     
  2. AdMan

    Schau mal hier: (hier klicken). Dort gibt es vieles für den 1er.

    Registrieren bzw. einloggen, um diese und auch andere Anzeigen zu deaktivieren
  3. #2 AnooooOH, 05.08.2012
    AnooooOH

    AnooooOH 1er-Süchtling

    Dabei seit:
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    Fahrzeugtyp:
    135i
    Motorisierung:
    M235i
    Modell:
    Coupé (F22)
    Baujahr:
    04/2014
    Vorname:
    Phil
  4. #3 the bruce, 05.08.2012
    the bruce

    the bruce 1er-Fan

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    Das Thema muss es doch schon geben. Sonst sieh mal im E90-Forum. Da stehen alle
    TNs mit Preisen.

    Es passen m.W. alle Lenker (Zugstrebe, Querlenker, Längslenker) und die Stabis sowie
    Domstrebe und die Lager des Hilfsrahmen an der HA.

    Wenn du nicht sowieso alles komplett machen willst würde ich mal mit der VA anfangen
    (Zugstrebe und QL).
     
  5. #4 AnooooOH, 05.08.2012
    AnooooOH

    AnooooOH 1er-Süchtling

    Dabei seit:
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    M235i
    Modell:
    Coupé (F22)
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    04/2014
    Vorname:
    Phil
    hier hab ich lieder nix gefunden und im e90 forum bin ich nicht angemeldet.
    hab jetzt auch nicht darauf geschlossen, dass man da was über den 1er finden könnte!:D
     
  6. Maiky

    Maiky 1er-Guru

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    Ob die Sachen wirklich so viel bringen ist auch umstritten. Gibt auch Leute, die die Teile wieder raus geworfen haben ;)
     
  7. #6 135i_BMWPerformance, 05.08.2012
    135i_BMWPerformance

    135i_BMWPerformance 1er-Profi

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    Hatte die VA-Querlenker schon verbaut. Hat sich subjektiv ganz gut angefühlt. Sturz wurde auch mehr und die Spur wurde ca. 5mm/Seite breiter. Das hat dann mit den breiten Work u. Kotflügel nicht mehr gereicht. Wennst Interesse hast kannst sie haben. HA-Stabi vom 1M ist aktuell noch verbaut. Geb den nachm Ausbau auch ab, wird mir alles zu hart auf Dauer mit der Kiste :grins:
    ...back to basic... :twisted:
     
  8. #7 AnooooOH, 06.08.2012
    AnooooOH

    AnooooOH 1er-Süchtling

    Dabei seit:
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    Fahrzeugtyp:
    135i
    Motorisierung:
    M235i
    Modell:
    Coupé (F22)
    Baujahr:
    04/2014
    Vorname:
    Phil
    hat der stabi vorne allein auch schon die härte so beeinfllusst?
    mmmh breitere spur kann ich mir eigentlich nicht erlauben denke ich!:D
    müsste man mal testen!
    hab jetzt 8,5 et 43 rundum.

    meinste das geht fit?
    wenn ja, schreib mir doch mal eine pn mit dem preis für die stabis!:)
     
  9. #8 Alpina_B3_Lux, 06.08.2012
    Alpina_B3_Lux

    Alpina_B3_Lux 1er-Fan

    Dabei seit:
    10.01.2010
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    683
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    Fahrzeugtyp:
    135i
    Ich kopiere hier mal meinen ausführlichen Bericht aus dem E90post - Forum hinein. Ich denke, daß diese auch auf englisch ausreichend verständlich ist. Die Teile-Nr. kann man ja ohnehin überall nachschauen. Ich habe diesen um den Sperrdiff-Teil gekürzt, sonst hätte der gar nicht in einen Post gepasst.

    In einem weiteren Post werde ich etwas zur M3-Domstrebe mitteilen.

    Übrigens, nach meinem Wissen teilen sich 135i und 335i die Fahrwerks-Basis, so dass alles, was ich hier zum 335i geschrieben habe, auch auf den 135i Anwendung finden sollte.

    17. M3 suspension parts

    This is part of my extended review thread that you can find in its entirety here: 335i E90 LCI - Experiences and review of various modifications (long!) but that I reposted here in order to make this part easier to find. I have posted it in both the drivetrain and suspension sections as the two modifications reviewed fall into both categories but were done at the same time, therefore difficult to dissociate.


    Why?
    If you want your car to drive faster than it can do in stock form, increasing the power output of the engine is only one part of the equation. If driving faster in a straight line on motorways is your only goal, then this might be enough; however, if your objective is also to be faster around corners, bends or even on a racetrack, then an improved suspension and better traction is a no-brainer.

    Let me start by saying that the stock suspension of my car (it's a 335i without M sport suspension) is actually quite good, once you ditch the awful runflat tires and upgrade to Michelin Pilot Sport 2 as I've done (see previous posts). But still, it's a suspension the main objective of which is to make the 335i a fast luxury sedan, and not necessarily to be on the sporty side - pursuant to BMW, that's what the M3 is for. For me, the stock suspension of the 335i has a bit too much body roll in corners, it does not react as fast and precise to steering input as an M3 and does not provide a very good feedback from the road to the driver. You can still drive it quite fast, but you have to sort of guess where its limits are or what you have to do in order to go where you want; I wanted to improve this.


    How?
    Suspension:

    The decision on how to upgrade the suspension was on several levels more complex. Springs? Dampers? Sway bars? Coilovers? Which type of each? I had test driven the Bilstein B16 Ride Control coilover on a similar car to my own last summer in South Africa (thanks to my friend Charles! :thumbsup: here's his review) and experienced it as a passenger on Tony's car (see his review under this link), and had been very favorably impressed with this coilover. However, it also was rather expensive (2000 EUR without install), and together with the LSD that was slightly out of my budget at that time.

    In the meantime, however, I had discovered that it is possible to transfer a certain number of components of the M3 suspension onto our cars, thus integrating parts of the superior handling characteristics of the M3 onto the 335i. In particular, this link about various M3 components as well as this review had been quite helpful and instructive in this matter. These parts were somewhat less expensive overall and could also be combined with different springs, dampers or the Bilstein B16 coilover at a later date. Also, none of these upgrades (except the sway bars) exist as aftermarket items, making them even more desirable and indispensable if one is really serious about increasing the handling capacity of the 335i. Another plus is that as they are OEM items, so almost no one will be able to tell that they're not stock - something which is rather important to me as my car needs to go through the TÜV inspection at some point in time.

    It was mentioned by those who already had these pieces installed that while mounting the LSD, it makes sense to install other parts for the rear axle at the same time, in order to avoid duplicate work later on. It seemed therefore obvious to me that I should have at least all rear axle items installed (rear subframe bushings, rear sway bar, rear guide rods, rear upper links); but (yeah, the mod bug got to me…) in the end I just thought "why not do all the rest too if the car is on the jack anyway?" and added the front axle items as well (sway bar, tension rod, lower wishbone). However, I left out those that needed different dampers (rear lower camber links), as I wanted to change them at a later stage (see above).

    I somewhat hesitated as far as the sway bars were concerned, as Birds recommended the Hartge sway bars instead of the M3 ones, the reason being that the M3 ones still induce some understeer while the Hartge ones are stiffer and provide a tendency for mild oversteer. However, I had driven an M3 and found it very well balanced, and a more or less neutral steering appealed to me as I do not want to pretend to have sufficient driving skill to counter any sudden movements from the rear end. Also, the Hartge sway bars seemed excessively expensive to me (around 730 EUR = almost 1000 USD), and I really had to set a limit somewhere.

    I obtained all items except the sway bars from HP Autowerks, as I could then be sure not to miss any vital part. However, I have in the meantime tried to put together a list of all parts and part numbers that were used, as a means of reference. Here it is, along with some explanations for each part (some borrowed from the HP website) - no guarantee is given, of course, and these are the parts for an E90/E92 (most words in brackets are the German words for each part):

    1. Front anti-roll bar / sway bar (Stabilisator vorne)
    Diagram see here)
    31352283515 (Stabilisator vorne)
    31352283516 (Gummilager Stabilisator Unterteil, 2x)
    31352283517 (Gummilager Stabilisator Oberteil, 2x)
    31352283037 (Haltebügel Stabilisator, 2x)
    31352283441 (Pendelstütze vorne links)
    31352283442 (Pendelstütze vorne rechts)
    07119904295 (Bundmutter selbstsichernd, 4x)
    33326768884 (Sechskantbundmutter, 4x)
    That's what it looks like:
    [​IMG]

    2. Rear anti-roll bar / sway bar (Stabilisator hinten)
    As delivered the E9x 3 series has excessive under steer and limited roll control. The M3 rear sway bar increases rear roll stiffness by reducing mass transfer forces in corners. That should give the car crisp, quick turn-in response and reduce understeer, making the car feel more planted. M3 anti bars give the driver the ability to rotate the car on corner entry and steer with the throttle when necessary. It also makes the suspension (front or rear) stiffer, which will reduce the grip.
    Diagram see here)
    33552283655 (Stabilisator hinten)
    33552283709 (Gummilager Stabilisator Unterteil)
    33552283710 (Gummilager Stabilisator Oberteil)
    33552283714 (Haltebügel Stabilisator, 2x)
    33556764428 (Pendelstütze, 2x)
    07119906077 (Zylinderschraube, 4x)
    07119903931 (Sechskantschraube mit Scheibe, 2x)
    33326768884 (Sechskantbundmutter, 2x)
    That's what it looks like:
    [​IMG]

    3. Tension strut / rod (front) left+right (Zugstrebe Vorderachsträger)
    31102283575 (left)
    31102283576 (right)
    That's what they look like:
    [​IMG]

    4. Lower wishbone / control arms (Querlenker Vorderachsträger)
    These add 0.75 degrees of camber, an alignment of the suspension after the install is therefore mandatory. A different xenon light regulation rod is needed (provided in the HP kit).
    31102283577 (left)
    31102283578 (right)
    37142283867 (xenon regulation rod)
    That's what they look like:
    [​IMG]

    5. Rear subframe bushings (Gummilager Hinterachsträger)
    The soft stock rear subframe bushings are replaced with stiffer, high performance bushings for a more predictable handling and more control.
    33312283382 (front, 2x)
    33312283383 (rear, 2x)
    That's what they look like:
    [​IMG]

    6. Rear guide rods (Führungslenker Hinterachsträger)
    Original guide rods were made to deflect under load, a bad thing for good handling and traction. The M3 guide rods are made of all aluminum, a lightweight component thereby reducing wear and tear on other, more critical parts (rear subframe, control arm bushings etc). Each guide rod weighs just over 1.5 lbs making for a total of ~3 lbs for both parts (stock guide rods weigh 2.1 lbs each). Bushing deflection with a rubber material at one end is replaced by a sealed joint for deflection and noise free operation. Bushing deflection is unwanted because it leads to excess suspension movement. This is bad for handling and traction due to constant camber and toe changes. Plus, any power from the engine can take longer to get to the ground because it has to windup the bushing first.
    Diagram see here)
    33322283547 (left)
    33322283548 (right)
    That's what they look like:
    [​IMG]

    7. Rear upper links / wishbones (Querlenker Hinterachsträger)
    Original upper links were made to deflect under load, a bad thing for good handling and traction. The M3 links are made of all aluminum, a lightweight component thereby reducing wear and tear on other, more critical parts (rear subframe, control arm bushings, etc). Each link weighs just over 1.7 lbs making for a total of ~3.4 lbs for both parts (stock guide link weigh 2.5 lbs each or 5 lbs for both). A weight savings of over 1.5 lbs from the rear suspension.
    33322283545 (left)
    33322283546 (right)
    That's what they look like:
    [​IMG]

    Here's also a photo of all parts before the install: [​IMG]

    The installation procedure of most items was (pursuant to Birds) very straightforward, in particular the tension rods, control arms, rear guide rods and rear upper links were really easy to do - take out the stock part, put in the M3 part, basically plug&play. The rear subframe bushings are a bit harder to do, apparently some force is needed to squeeze them in. Due to the LSD that was being installed, the exhaust had to be lowered anyway, so that access to the bushings was provided for. An alignment was done afterwards (this is a must due to the different camber induced by the lower wishbones in the front!), but no complete KDS (there was not sufficient time).

    Here are some photos of the installation so you see where at least part of the pieces ended up:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Comparison of stock and M3 subframe bushings:
    [​IMG]

    Unfortunately, it proved somewhat difficult to install the sway bars: Pursuant to Birds, the M3 sway bars did not fit into the OEM endlinks, and the bushings for the sway bars that I provided supposedly did not fit either. For the rear sway bar, Birds therefore fabricated custom bushings by re-machining the OEM bushings; but they gave up on the front sway bar. Now, as several here on this forum have confirmed, everything does fit, even though it's a tight affair and you may have to apply some force to get everything in place. Fortunately for me, my local shop in Germany where I have had all my other modifications done, Daum Motorsport, managed to get the front sway bar installed. I must admit that I was somewhat disappointed with Birds over this (also because they charged me extra for the re-machining which I assume would not have been necessary), but am nevertheless glad it worked out in the end.

    Improvements?
    A) Suspension:
    Now, let's come to the part that certainly is of most interest to you - how does it drive now? I held off with my review for some time as the weather was really bad and I wanted to spend some time on a race track - the famous Nürburgring - with the modifications to evaluate the changes properly. Here are two photos from the two days during the Easter week-end that I spent there:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Even though the weather was not ideal, I was able to get almost 15 laps done (around 300 km), and have also driven an additional 3000km on normal roads. Immediately upon taking delivery of my car from Birds, the change was very noticeable. The car felt much more planted, body roll in corners was substantially decreased, and it was much more responsive to any steering input. Although even in stock form I didn't have any serious complaint with the steering response (in particular compared to some other cars I've driven in the meantime…), the car felt much sharper, more awake when going round corners, and any slight change in radius was immediately transferred to the road. Combined with the active steering I have, it is really much more fun to drive now! Going around the 'Ring, the decrease in body roll was also noticeable, the car also felt much more stable at high speed cornering (there are some bends on the 'Ring where you are faster than 150 km/h). In general, you have the feeling that you are more connected to the car and, through it, to the road than before. There is less of a "filter" that delays your input and the car's feedback. It now feels more like a sportscar than it did before.


    Problems / disadvantages?
    As far as the M3 suspension components are concerned, ride comfort will be slightly (and I mean slightly) decreased. This is due to less cushioning in the front, so that you'll get more feedback from the road through the steering wheel; also, the stiffer rear subframe bushings (and upper links + wishbones) lead to a firmer rear suspension, road imperfections will be felt a bit more than before. It's not much, though, comparable to switching from 18 inch tires to 19 inch tires. - Lastly, I also noticed that (probably a consequence of the stiffer sway bars and the LSD) if the rear end slides out, it does so less gradually than before and you have to react quickly, even with DSC turned on - but that usually only happens if you drive like you should only drive on the track, and then you're supposed to know what you're doing.

    As a summary, I can say I'm very, very pleased with these modifications and they have transformed the car in a lot of ways. They contribute to my driving pleasure each time I drive a bit faster on curvy roads, and I can sincerely recommend both to anyone who's remotely interested in making his car quicker and more nimble. Thanks also to Tone and Charles for their invaluable advice and help. - Now I'm looking forward to seeing how the Bilstein B16 Ride Control coilover which is just being installed will further change the driving characteristics of my car!

    Alpina_B3_Lux
     
  10. #9 Alpina_B3_Lux, 06.08.2012
    Alpina_B3_Lux

    Alpina_B3_Lux 1er-Fan

    Dabei seit:
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    Fahrzeugtyp:
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    Und hier wie versprochen der Beitrag zur Domstrebe.

    19. M3 strut brace

    This is part of my extended review thread that you can find in its entirety here: 335i E90 LCI - Experiences and review of various modifications (long!) but that I reposted here in order to make this part easier to find.

    Why?

    As you may have read in my previous review (see here: REVIEW: M3 suspension parts & Quaife limited slip differential ), I've been in the game for improving the stock suspension of my 335i for some time. The M3 pieces that have been installed so far have already had a considerable positive effect and made me think of adding another piece that is transferable from the M3 to my car: the strut brace (or tower brace, as it is sometimes called).

    Now, you may say "but the 335i already has a strut brace", and you would be correct. However, the brace that the 335i comes with from the factory is rather flimsy: The bulkhead end is just a loose slot in the end of the brace, so it only braces against compression, in extension it is unsecured. Also the standard single bolt attachment at the strut tops will be subject to flex and distortion, whereas the diecast ring arrangment of the M3 item gives a very solid and rigid attachment to the strut top.

    Again, you could argue: "Why the M3 part? Isn't there a strut brace from the BMW Performance line as well?" Well, the Performance strut brace still is only a two point brace, just like the OEM one that comes on the 335i. The M3 brace, on the other hand, is a three point brace that also connects the struts to the firewall, and not only with each other. By definition it is therefore stiffer. This V arrangement also gives open access to the engine and maintains pedestrian impact regs clearances between bonnet and rigid parts.

    How?

    First of all, you will need to order the parts - either from your BMW dealer or through an aftermarket provider. Here's the link to the part catalogue at RealOEM: BMW E92 M3 strut brace installation on 335i

    The components look like this:
    [​IMG]

    To make it easier, here's also the list of the parts with their respective part numbers you need:

    • 51617900821 Ring, dome cross-brace, left
    • 51617900822 Ring, dome cross-brace, right
    • 51618044553 Strut brace (you need two of those)
    • 51618045860 Mount for strut brace
    • 51617891281 Covering cap (you need two of those)
    • 51618046445 Stud (two of those) *
    • 51717898374 Stud (4 of those) *
    • 07119904401 Hex bolt (2)
    • 07146954965 ASA-Bolt with circlip (not needed, can be re-used from existing brace)
    • 07146963730 Torx bolt (2)
    • 51717895241 Hex nut (6)
    • 31316769731 Self-locking collar nut (6)

    You will have to replace the items marked with an (*) as otherwise the brace will interfere with the microfilter assembly. Item 51618046445 can be replaced with two 07119904401 hex bolts.

    As I wanted to avoid any hassle at the time with bolts or nuts that don't fit, I ordered the whole package through Harold at HP Autowerks who has already been of great help in the past. Here's the link for the M3 brace package (which already includes all correct pieces to install it on a 335i):
    HP Autowerks / link to shop for M3 strut brace - everything costs around 250 EUR in total.

    As I've no problem admitting that I'm not too much manually inclined, I didn't do the install myself (although it probably is rather easy for someone with a bit of skill). I had it installed, as many of my modifications, by Daum Motorsport that did the job very well, as usual. Here's an extensive guide with photos on how to install it: BMW E92 M3 strut brace installation on 335i

    Here are some photos of how it looks installed on my car:

    View of the engine bay / right tower (see the red arrow):
    [​IMG]

    View of the engine bay / from the front (see the arrow):
    [​IMG]

    View of the engine bay / complete view (see the two red arrows):
    [​IMG]

    Improvements?

    After picking up my car from my garage, I took it for a spin on some curvy back roads, and the difference was noticeable immediately. Compared to other modifications, the difference is not probably immense, but I confirm that it has made a marked difference. The intial steering response is much sharper and more direct, and when you're in a bend, even tiny steering inputs result in the front just tucking in even more. It allows you to drive the car with more precision and is, to say it plainly, even more fun to let it rip on some curvy backroads.

    Problems / disadvantages?

    None at all from my perspective. Of course it is not cheap and you have the hassle of installing it in replacement of the OEM brace - but at least for those like me that are already on the slippery road of multiple suspension modifications it is certainly worth the money.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
     
  11. #10 AnooooOH, 06.08.2012
    AnooooOH

    AnooooOH 1er-Süchtling

    Dabei seit:
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    Phil
    du bist mein held!!!
    vielen dank!!:)
     
  12. #11 BMWlover, 06.08.2012
    BMWlover

    BMWlover 1er-Koryphäe

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    Die Meinungen über die Teile gehen hier auseinander. Ralph (munzi70) hatte seine Querlenker wieder rausgeworfen das sie nix gebracht haben. Investiere lieber in ein vernünftiges und hochwertiges Fahrwerk.
     
  13. Maiky

    Maiky 1er-Guru

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    Seh ich auch so ;) Nur mehr Sturz ist nicht alles...
     
  14. #13 Alpina_B3_Lux, 06.08.2012
    Alpina_B3_Lux

    Alpina_B3_Lux 1er-Fan

    Dabei seit:
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    135i
    Die M3-Teile sind nicht als Ersatz, sondern als Ergänzung für ein Fahrwerk gedacht.

    Über Fahrwerke an sich (d.h. Federn + Dämpfern) spreche ich hier ja gar nicht. Fraglos wird man bei einem anderen Fahrwerk einen größeren Unterschied spüren, als wenn man nur die Querlenker austauscht; das sollte offensichtlich sein. Falls man aber aus welchen Gründen auch immer kein anderes Fahrwerk einbauen will, oder bereits ein anderes eingebaut hat, sind die M3-Teile eine sehr sinnvolle Ergänzung. Denn ein Upgrade für diese Fahrwerksteile - mit Ausnahme von Stabis und Domstrebe - gibt es im Tuning-Sektor überhaupt nicht.

    Und ich kann aus eigener Erfahrung sagen, dass man den Unterschied nach dem Einbau dieser Teile deutlich erfahren kann - zumindest wenn man, wie bei mir, alle gleichzeitig austauscht.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
     
  15. AdMan

    Schau dir mal den passenden Ratgeber an. Dort findet man Infos und Antworten.

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  16. #14 BMWlover, 06.08.2012
    BMWlover

    BMWlover 1er-Koryphäe

    Dabei seit:
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    Baujahr:
    02/2009
    Da geb ich dir natürlich Recht. Hatte das nur so geschrieben, da Phil "nur" ein Eibach Pro Kit verbaut hat afaik. Und da würde ich dann doch eher in ein Gewindefahrwerk investieren bevor ich anfange Fahrwerksteile vom M3 einzubauen :)
     
  17. #15 AnooooOH, 06.08.2012
    AnooooOH

    AnooooOH 1er-Süchtling

    Dabei seit:
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    Goslar/NDS
    Fahrzeugtyp:
    135i
    Motorisierung:
    M235i
    Modell:
    Coupé (F22)
    Baujahr:
    04/2014
    Vorname:
    Phil
    in meinem umbau thread habe ich geschrieben, dass ich ein neues fahrwerk holen möchte, und gleichzeitig auf die m3 teile umrüsten werde!:)

    weiss aber noch nicht so recht welches, aber mir taugt das pp fahrwerk schon ziemlich gut!das hat mir auf der strecke riesenspaß bereitet!
    schau mir beim hannover treffen mal die tieferlegung nochmal genauer an.
    hatte überlegt die pp dämpfer mit den prokit federn zu verbauen.
    dann ist da noch das schnitzer fahrwerk welches mir sehr schmackhaft gemacht wurde und sonst kommt nur das b14/b16 in frage!
     
Thema: Welche M3 Fahrwerkskomponenten sind kompatibel?
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